Blaming the Victim of Lying About Harm Done to Her

I read a post in a certain person’s Fetlife writings putting forth a Zen parable that spoke of a woman who lied to her parents about who had fathered her out-of-wedlock child, blaming it on a “Zen teacher”, to whom the parents then brought the infant, telling him he must raise it.  He accepted the child with equanimity as they cursed him out for his hypocricy, just commenting, “Is that so?” (Another poster said the parable was originally a Buddhist monk, and the comment was “We shall see”, which is more how I remember hearing it originally.)

A year later, the daughter recanted, reportedly “distraught”, and Mom and Dad came back to the master, begging him to return the child, profusely apologizing for besmirching his good name, and received exactly the same serene response from the master as the year before, of “Is that so?”/ “We shall see”.

The moral, of course, is that women (or at least certain women) may lie (!) about what well-known masters have done, claiming harm that never actually happened, so one should not believe them when they issue accusations against the high-and-mighty, who often believe themselves to be invincible (at least in the BDSM world), particularly when they are better known.  It is likely to turn out that the complaints are what was untrue.

(Of course, it often turns out that the “master” isn’t that much of one to start with, except in his own imagination, and comparisons to Zen masters are thus absurd to the point of ridiculousness, but I digress…)

Another poster responded with a quote from the I Ching, which I quoted partially and responded to.  I am reproducing my response here because I fully expect that the OP will delete my posts, and this is an incredibly important issue – and there’s a reason it’s been raised at this point.

Because *my* moral to the story, with some known additional history (which could in fact also be played out in many ways by many people), is “Be careful, those of you who proclaim that your victims are lying about you when they tell the world what you have done to harm them, because we shall indeed eventually see…”


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Second, a compromise with evil is not possible; and must under all circumstances be openly discredited.

Very well said.

Nor must our own passions and shortcomings be glossed over.

True, but if they are unrelated to the evil situation in question, they are irrelevant to the resolution of it and the discrediting of the perpetrator, and may only confuse an oftentimes far more clear issue.

IOW, pointing a finger inwards certainly may be necessary at times – but should never distract from when the fingers definitely ought to be pointed outwards. Even more importantly, it is essential that others not distract from the issue by doing this.

There is a time and a place to look at them together – and a time and a place to hold them separate.

If a person is grievously physically injured, for example, there is simply no excusing the perpetrator who has caused this injury by his deliberate actions, and it is irrelevant what the injured party may have done because inflicting a nonaccidental injury is entirely under the control of the perpetrator. It’s like no one makes anyone rape someone else, no matter what they may have been doing before it happens. No one makes another perform any other manner of evil or harmful deed. That responsibility lies entirely with the person who causes the harm.

If one is himself the perpetrator of a harm, of course, then not glossing over it (and not blaming the victim for it or accusing him of lying about it) it is certainly the only appropriate course of action.

Indeed, it is incumbent upon said perpetrator, if he is an honest person and wishes to be so perceived, to own up to what he has done without excuses.

Amazingly, sometimes all it takes is an honest apology to rectify even some of the most grievous of situations, even when vast amounts of documentation as to the cause of the problem exist.

Therefore it is important to begin at home, to be on guard in our own persons against the faults we have branded.

Just so.

It is also important to recognize, if an outsider to the situation, that these “faults we have branded” (and here we are, of course, discussing lying about a harm done) may lie (so to speak) far more in the home of the party doing the open branding than that of the one so accused.

Sometimes, large amounts of documentation exist that prove who is actually doing the branding and who ought to be the one justly discredited, if one but consults the blamed party who is so branded a liar. Not all accusations of lies are themselves the truth as in the parable told in the OP – and many such accusations can be readily so proven to be the actual falsehoods.

And indeed, in the end, the real truth will tend to out eventually…

Characteristics of the Narcissist

from the Narcissistic Abuse website:

CHARACTERISTICS of the NARCISSIST and others with Personality Disorders

These apply to males and females.

1. Self-centered. His needs are paramount.

2. No remorse for mistakes or misdeeds.

3. Unreliable, undependable.

4. Does not care about the consequences of his actions.

5. Projects faults on to others. High blaming behavior; never his fault.

6.  Little if any conscience.

7. Insensitive to needs and feelings of others.

8.  Has a good front (persona) to impress and exploit others.

9.  Low stress tolerance. Easy to anger and rage.

10.  People are to be manipulated for his needs.

11.  Rationalizes easily. Twists conversation to his gain at other’s expense.  If trapped, keeps talking, changes the subject or gets angry.

12. Pathological lying.

13. Tremendous need to control situations, conversations, others.

14.  No real values.  Mostly situational.

15.  Often perceived as caring and understanding and uses this to manipulate.

16.  Angry, mercurial, moods.

17.  Uses sex to control

18.  Does not  share ideas, feelings, emotions.

19.  Conversation controller. Must have the first and last word.

20. Is very slow to forgive others. Hangs onto resentment.

21. Secret life. Hides money, friends, activities.

22.  Likes annoying others. Likes to create chaos and  disrupt for no reason.

23.  Moody – switches from nice guy to anger without much provocation.

24.  Repeatedly fails to honor financial obligations.

25.  Seldom expresses appreciation.

26.  Grandiose. Convinced he knows more than others and is correct in all he   does.

27.  Lacks ability to see how he comes across to others.  Defensive when confronted with his behavior.  Never his  fault.

28.  Can get emotional, tearful. This is about show or frustration rather than sorrow.

29.  He breaks woman’s spirits to keep them dependent.

30.  Needs  threats, intimidations to keep others close to him.

31.  Sabotages partner. Wants her to be happy only through him and to have few or no outside interests and acquaintances.

32.  Highly contradictory.

33. Convincing.  Must convince people to side with him.

34. Hides his real self.  Always “on”

35. Kind only if he’s getting from you what he wants.

36.  He has to be right. He has to win. He has to look good.

37.  He announces, not discusses. He tells, not asks.

38.  Does not discuss openly, has a hidden agenda.

39.  Controls money of others but spends freely on himself.

40.  Unilateral condition of, “I’m OK and justified so I don’t need to hear your  position or ideas”

41.  Always feels misunderstood.

42.  You feel miserable with this person. He drains you.

43.  Does not listen because he does not care.

44.  His feelings are discussed, not the partners.

45.  Is not interested in problem-solving..

46.  Very good at reading people, so he can manipulate them. Sometimes called gaslighting.

I Miss… I Don’t Miss

12/22/09

Every morning I still awaken with the thought of how much I miss you, how much I want to be with you again, how much I miss being in your arms.

And then my mind changes course, and I correct it with the new thought what I miss is the good parts, not the bad. And I try to remember what they all were… Continue reading

Honesty and Lying in Relationships

What are your expectations from a partner regarding honesty vs lying?  Do you think that lying is ever OK?

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I personally  expect full openness and honesty – and I give it in return.  Unfortunately, I once had the experience of being with someone who  told me several things about his relationships that he clearly believed were true – but I later found out that they definitely were not.  Unfortunately, he tells the same thing to everyone else and puts them out into the world in general.

The issue there turned out to lie in his having some rather, shall we say, fluid definitions of a number of things related to relationships, so he was able to delude his own self into believing he was telling the absolute truth when he patently was not.  He even contradicted his own self about his own definitions at times, clearly when it suited his purposes.

He really doesn’t seem to realize that he’s doing this, as far as I can tell, or at least those definitions of his are pretty convenient, as they allow him to maintain the illusion of what he says is true.  He really does seem to believe his own stories, except I know for a fact that they are untrue, because I myself was party to certain events that specifically and explicitly completely invalidate his claims.  He himself admitted to a particular other circumstance that also made the lie obvious.

When you find out that someone has, in fact, lied to you like this, especially about really fundamental relationship matters such as relationship status and history of the same, it makes it pretty darned near impossible to believe them about anything else – especially if a new situation shares any characteristics as the former one which involved those same kinds of definitions that were twisted to suit his purposes.

Having discovered one lie related to relationship status (let alone more than one), my jealousy and insecurity meters go off the charts and cause me tremendous fear and upset if it looks as if my partner is doing anything even remotely similar at another time.

If those fears are not immediately assuaged and I’m not *quickly and compassionately* assured that everything is OK, that he fully understands my concerns, and assures me *of his own accord* that the same thing will never happen again, and especially if he gets upset when I bring it up, that will just feed the jealousy and suspicion to no end. Continue reading

Broken Promises and Agreements

What do you do if a dominant breaks a promise? Do you accept an apology, forget about it and go on? Watch to see if it becomes a consistent pattern? Does it matter to you whether the promise was made to you or to someone else? The circumstances and details? Does it matter if it’s a sin of commission or omission?

What I do depends upon exactly what was promised, how and why the promise was not made good on, and indeed, whether or not there is a pattern present.

Does he just tend to forget to pick up the milk on the way home from work when he’s said he would? Did he promise to take me out to dinner and forget his wallet so I ended up having to pay one time? Or are we talking about repeated violations of limits and boundaries? Is it a similar broken promise to one that you know he’s done with others before? Involving you nonconsensually in a promise he breaks to someone else, or just breaking a promise to someone else at all? Decides to take the scene somewhere other than flogging, even if he’s promised you that (assuming your agreements allow that)?

*Very* different responses would be warranted to each of these sorts of broken promises.

The stage of the relationship matters to some of these decisions for me, but not to others.

Some broken promises, lies, or other transgressions don’t get a second chance – or at least never will again from me. Either they are too damaging in and of themselves, or they are far too likely to be harbingers of things to come.

Watch what he’s done with his exes, too, particularly the ones he spent the longest periods of time with, because that will become what he does with you eventually. Even if it’s not the exact same broken agreements, the fact that he broke important ones with them should be a major red flag that he’ll eventually break something major with you as well.